NFL 2016

[RMD]

I am still wondering how the officials could pick up that flag on the pass interference call in the Detroit/Dallas game.

[Tequila Cowboy]

I am still wondering how the officials could pick up that flag on the pass interference call in the Detroit/Dallas game.

me too.

[beantownbubba]

Mike Florio is reporting that, barring some sort of disaster in a face to face meeting, Rex Ryan will be named Falcons head coach today. Someone really needs to explain to me why Ryan is getting another HC job so soon. Defensive coordinator sure but after his Jets run he warrants another shot? I don't get it.

On a related note the Bears didn't even interview Ryan because the feeling was he'd be such a popular favorite that they'd have to hire him. I don't agree with the Bears much, and I'm sure they'll pick the wrong guy, but on this I'm with them. The last thing they need is another Ditka sized ego on the sideline.

Didn't Ryan's teams get to the AFC championship in his first 2 (or 2 of his first 3, something like that) seasons? If you're the Falcons and you already think you've got the right critical mass of players (and the right QB, picking QB's being an apparent big weakness of Rex's) but something went seriously wrong somewhere, doesn't Rex look like just the right quick fix artist? I don't think I'd like to work w/ or for the guy and I doubt I'd hire him myself but it doesn't seem like that big a stretch. Plus given the Falcon recent disappointing performance I imagine there's a lot of grumbling among the fans and one thing about Rex is that he's got PR value.

[beantownbubba]

Yeah, have to disagree there. I'd take Holmgren 10 times out of 10 over McDaniels. Drafting Tebow was the most monumental mistake in the history of the NFL, until Cleveland drafted Johnny Football of course (Who it looks like they're going to release btw). Those kind of mistakes don't warrant second chances IMO.

Seriously? Those are the worst you can think of? Ryan Leaf? Tony Mandarich? JaMarcus Russell? The Vikings or Saints giving up the world to get Hershel Walker and Ricky Williams?

Taking a chance on a QB in the mid-late first round is that serious of an offense now? Shoot, Tebow even had a little bit of sucess. You don't think he would have been better than Ryan Lindley this past weekend?

Thank you sg. Plus the whole "no second chances" thing kind of creeps me out.

[Tequila Cowboy]

Yeah, have to disagree there. I'd take Holmgren 10 times out of 10 over McDaniels. Drafting Tebow was the most monumental mistake in the history of the NFL, until Cleveland drafted Johnny Football of course (Who it looks like they're going to release btw). Those kind of mistakes don't warrant second chances IMO.

Seriously? Those are the worst you can think of? Ryan Leaf? Tony Mandarich? JaMarcus Russell? The Vikings or Saints giving up the world to get Hershel Walker and Ricky Williams?

Taking a chance on a QB in the mid-late first round is that serious of an offense now? Shoot, Tebow even had a little bit of sucess. You don't think he would have been better than Ryan Lindley this past weekend?

I guess I don't count Leaf, Mandarich or Russell because anyone would have taken those guys exactly where they were taken. I'm not going to bemoan a mistake when it was was conventional wisdom. It's the smartest guy in the room stuff that gets to me like drafting Tebow in the 1st when no one else would have drafted him until the late 2nd or 3rd or taking Manziel after he had fallen off everyone's 1st round draft boards. Point taken though and I'll resist the hyperbole in the future. Still Tebo couldn't play and Cleveland is still talking about cutting their first draft pick after 2 starts. That's pretty bad.

[Tequila Cowboy]

Mike Florio is reporting that, barring some sort of disaster in a face to face meeting, Rex Ryan will be named Falcons head coach today. Someone really needs to explain to me why Ryan is getting another HC job so soon. Defensive coordinator sure but after his Jets run he warrants another shot? I don't get it.

On a related note the Bears didn't even interview Ryan because the feeling was he'd be such a popular favorite that they'd have to hire him. I don't agree with the Bears much, and I'm sure they'll pick the wrong guy, but on this I'm with them. The last thing they need is another Ditka sized ego on the sideline.

Didn't Ryan's teams get to the AFC championship in his first 2 (or 2 of his first 3, something like that) seasons? If you're the Falcons and you already think you've got the right critical mass of players (and the right QB, picking QB's being an apparent big weakness of Rex's) but something went seriously wrong somewhere, doesn't Rex look like just the right quick fix artist? I don't think I'd like to work w/ or for the guy and I doubt I'd hire him myself but it doesn't seem like that big a stretch. Plus given the Falcon recent disappointing performance I imagine there's a lot of grumbling among the fans and one thing about Rex is that he's got PR value.

Listen, Lovie Smith is a bad football coach but if you go by the record it looks pretty good and nobody offered him any HC interviews after being fired by Chicago. He was offered a lot of D coordinator interviews though all which he declined and sat out a year before he was seriously considered for any jobs and really even then only Tampa Bay had serious interest. So why didn't Ryan have to wait a year? Like Smith he's a good defensive coach but also like Smith I don't think he's proven much as a head man except for winning those first couple of years with other people's talent. I don't know it just says something to me when the hottest coaches in this coaching carousel are Rex Ryan, Doug Marrone and Mike Shanahan.

[beantownbubba]

Didn't Ryan's teams get to the AFC championship in his first 2 (or 2 of his first 3, something like that) seasons? If you're the Falcons and you already think you've got the right critical mass of players (and the right QB, picking QB's being an apparent big weakness of Rex's) but something went seriously wrong somewhere, doesn't Rex look like just the right quick fix artist? I don't think I'd like to work w/ or for the guy and I doubt I'd hire him myself but it doesn't seem like that big a stretch. Plus given the Falcon recent disappointing performance I imagine there's a lot of grumbling among the fans and one thing about Rex is that he's got PR value.

Listen, Lovie Smith is a bad football coach but if you go by the record it looks pretty good and nobody offered him any HC interviews after being fired by Chicago. He was offered a lot of D coordinator interviews though all which he declined and sat out a year before he was seriously considered for any jobs and really even then only Tampa Bay had serious interest. So why didn't Ryan have to wait a year? Like Smith he's a good defensive coach but also like Smith I don't think he's proven much as a head man except for winning those first couple of years with other people's talent. I don't know it just says something to me when the hottest coaches in this coaching carousel are Rex Ryan, Doug Marrone and Mike Shanahan.

Yes, it says it's the NFL. Which is a lot like MLB in this respect. Dinosaurs roam in both leagues and a "conservative" is perceived as a flaming radical. You don't see any David Blatts in either league. Not sure why you think sitting out a year is important or required or whatever it is that you think about it. It's all PR/image. Lovie was perceived as damaged goods. Apparently Rex is not. I could speculate about the different perceptions but it would be just speculation.

[Tequila Cowboy]

I think they're both bad football coaches I just think the fact that Ryan looks to be the first guy hired is odd. You found it odd that Mike Holmgren wanted to coach and would even be considered and I'd take him over Ryan or Marrone or even Shanahan any day of the week.

[sg207]

Yeah, have to disagree there. I'd take Holmgren 10 times out of 10 over McDaniels. Drafting Tebow was the most monumental mistake in the history of the NFL, until Cleveland drafted Johnny Football of course (Who it looks like they're going to release btw). Those kind of mistakes don't warrant second chances IMO.

Seriously? Those are the worst you can think of? Ryan Leaf? Tony Mandarich? JaMarcus Russell? The Vikings or Saints giving up the world to get Hershel Walker and Ricky Williams?

Taking a chance on a QB in the mid-late first round is that serious of an offense now? Shoot, Tebow even had a little bit of sucess. You don't think he would have been better than Ryan Lindley this past weekend?

Thank you sg. Plus the whole "no second chances" thing kind of creeps me out.

The no second chance thing is a little strange, but he does bring a distraction with him (through no fault of his own really), and while he's had some success, he's certainly not the second coming of Tom Brady either. But still, with as many bad QBs around the league as there are, yeah, I would think somebody would try him again.

[Bill in CT]

Besides the circus atmosphere that would follow Tebow to any NFL team, there's also the issue of having to construct the team's offense around what he does well. He can't run a normal pro-style offense well at all so if he ever got hurt, the backup would be in a very tough spot.

Jim Fassel has clearly been blackballed which is bizarre to me. He was a solid coach for the Giants including a run to the Super Bowl in 2000 but has never gotten another head coaching opportunity.

[Tequila Cowboy]

Besides the circus atmosphere that would follow Tebow to any NFL team, there's also the issue of having to construct the team's offense around what he does well. He can't run a normal pro-style offense well at all so if he ever got hurt, the backup would be in a very tough spot.

I don't think that can be overstated. Tebow has no comp so your backup would be essentially have to run a brand new offense if he was hurt. On the other hand he couldn't be a backup and fulfill a role as a sub in certain designed plays because he couldn't run a standard offense. The shame of Tebow to me is the fact that he was one hell of a football player and his absolute refusal to play TE or Safety to stay in the NFL is confusing. If anyone could have made that change it would have been him. He was never going to be an NFL QB and his enablers that convince him he could didn't do him any favors.

Jim Fassel has clearly been blackballed which is bizarre to me. He was a solid coach for the Giants including a run to the Super Bowl in 2000 but has never gotten another head coaching opportunity.

Funny you mention that as I was thinking about Fassel this morning. Why he never got another gig is very odd.

[Tequila Cowboy]

So it's starting to look more and more likely that the Bears have made some decisions and that former Personnel Director Chris Ballard is being tapped as the new GM with former special teams coach Dave Toub as Head Coach. Ballard was the top lieutenant to the last two failed Bears GM's before leaving for Kansas City and Toub was a long time coordinator for Lovie Smith. Those of you that think I was kidding about leaving the Bears behind just watch if this happens. The Bears are awful.

[cortez the killer]

The shame of Tebow to me is the fact that he was one hell of a football player and his absolute refusal to play TE or Safety to stay in the NFL is confusing. If anyone could have made that change it would have been him. He was never going to be an NFL QB and his enablers that convince him he could didn't do him any favors.

I've tried to stay out of the fray in this (and the college football thread), but this is a ridiculous statement. For starters, the requirements and skill sets for tight ends and safeties are entirely different. Furthermore, I don't understand how somebody can say what Tebow did as a college QB at Florida provides sufficient proof that he could play either tight end, safety, or any other position in the NFL. Tim Tebow was a great college football player and a below average NFL player. There have been considerably more great college players who haven't panned out in the NFL than those that have. Being a great college football player certainly helps when trying project whether or not that person will be an NFL-caliber player, but it far from a sure thing. There is a long, long list of great college football players whose game/skills never properly translated to the NFL. And if you or I knew exactly why or how this was, we would be incredibly sought after and wealthy people. It just happens that Tebow was a Heisman Trophy-winning QB on the national championship-winning Florida Gators team. In the media-frenzied culture we live in, everybody knew who Tim Tebow was. Maybe he refused to play TE and/or Safety or some other position because he knew it was a flawed projection. To suggest if anyone could have made that change it would have been him comes off as a tired, fan/media-generated fairy tale.

[Tequila Cowboy]

The shame of Tebow to me is the fact that he was one hell of a football player and his absolute refusal to play TE or Safety to stay in the NFL is confusing. If anyone could have made that change it would have been him. He was never going to be an NFL QB and his enablers that convince him he could didn't do him any favors.

I've tried to stay out of the fray in this (and the college football thread), but this is a ridiculous statement. For starters, the requirements and skill sets for tight ends and safeties are entirely different. Furthermore, I don't understand how somebody can say what Tebow did as a college QB at Florida provides sufficient proof that he could play either tight end, safety, or any other position in the NFL. Tim Tebow was a great college football player and a below average NFL player. There have been considerably more great college players who haven't panned out in the NFL than those that have. Being a great college football player certainly helps when trying project whether or not that person will be an NFL-caliber player, but it far from a sure thing. There is a long, long list of great college football players whose game/skills never properly translated to the NFL. And if you or I knew exactly why or how this was, we would be incredibly sought after and wealthy people. It just happens that Tebow was a Heisman Trophy-winning QB on the national championship-winning Florida Gators team. In the media-frenzied culture we live in, everybody knew who Tim Tebow was. Maybe he refused to play TE and/or Safety or some other position because he knew it was a flawed projection. To suggest if anyone could have made that change it would have been him comes off as a tired, fan/media-generated fairy tale.

You may be right, you know the game better than I do. Most of my opinion comes from hearing and reading football "experts" describe why they think Tebow had the kind of football IQ and physical skills to play other positions. One expert I've listened to over the years said he was finest competitor he ever witnessed. A lot of the rest also made strong cases and I believed what they said. I'm not an idiot though and I watched him play in college and did not think his skills translated to the NFL and I had plenty of company. In the end I have no idea if he could have played elsewhere but it was widely suggested that he could and that it was only pride holding him back. Maybe that was media generated I have no idea.

When it comes to things where I only have a layman's knowledge I gain as much insight as I can on my own and then listen/read about as many diverse opinions as I can find and base my opinion on the ones that make the most sense logically. The furthest I got playing football was freshman level in HS as I was too small to go further than that but I have always loved the game and soaked up as much about it as I could. I like to hear from people who played, coached and cover the game to gain insight. Again I choose to believe the ones who make the strongest cases. If that makes me sound wrongheaded so be it. In the end I'm just a fan.

[Slipkid42]

I'm just a fan too & I don't know if Tebow can be a decent TE or safety or televangelist; but I do like that guy. He seems very sincere.
And I have watched enough football to know that Tebow isn't even in the bottom third of shittiest QBs ever. In fact, he's better than a few who started games this year.

[sg207]

Besides the circus atmosphere that would follow Tebow to any NFL team, there's also the issue of having to construct the team's offense around what he does well. He can't run a normal pro-style offense well at all so if he ever got hurt, the backup would be in a very tough spot.

Jim Fassel has clearly been blackballed which is bizarre to me. He was a solid coach for the Giants including a run to the Super Bowl in 2000 but has never gotten another head coaching opportunity.

While I agree with that, the fact of the matter is that the vast majority of NFL teams are just about screwed anyway if their starting QB goes out to injury.

[Zip City]

Charlie Ward won the Heisman and wasn't even drafted.

[LBRod]

I'd take Holmgren 10 times out of 10 over McDaniels.

This. I am pissed that the 49ers would not even give Holmgren an interview.
http://www.sfgate.com/49ers/article/49e ... 995301.php

[Bill in CT]

I'd take Holmgren 10 times out of 10 over McDaniels.

This. I am pissed that the 49ers would not even give Holmgren an interview.
http://www.sfgate.com/49ers/article/49e ... 995301.php

I heard on the radio today that the NFL thinks someone who has been away from NFL coaching for at least 3 years is out of touch with the league. Holmgren's last season as the Seattle coach was 2008 so maybe that is a factor in why the 49ers didn't give him an interview.

[cortez the killer]

[tinnitus photography]

I am still wondering how the officials could pick up that flag on the pass interference call in the Detroit/Dallas game.

me too.

didn;t the head ref guy who was out partying w/ Jones' son say it should have been called a penalty?

i bet the Lions are pretty psyched about that.

[dime in the gutter]

teams get fucked by the refs every week. it is very common. it has happened forever. in bigger games.


seems to me.

[Bill in CT]

teams get fucked by the refs every week. it is very common. it has happened forever. in bigger games.


seems to me.

Perhaps. But have you ever seen this before:

Flag is thrown.
Penalty is announced.
Yardage is marked off.
THEN
Flag is picked up.

Before the Lions-Cowboys game, I had never seen that in all my years of watching football.

[Iowan]

It does seem that athletic QBs translate into good receivers on a pretty regular basis.

[dime in the gutter]

It does seem that athletic QBs translate into good receivers on a pretty regular basis.

up thru college....maybe.

not many examples that i can think of in the nfl. i think drew pearson played some qb at tulsa.

on the reverse...qb tannehill at wr at atm.

[dime in the gutter]

teams get fucked by the refs every week. it is very common. it has happened forever. in bigger games.


seems to me.

Perhaps. But have you ever seen this before:

Flag is thrown.
Penalty is announced.
Yardage is marked off.
THEN
Flag is picked up.

Before the Lions-Cowboys game, I had never seen that in all my years of watching football.

shit happens on the reg in the sec.

[Tequila Cowboy]

Antwaan Randle El and Hines Ward come to mind as converted QBs.

[cortez the killer]

Julian Edelman is another, but athletic college QBs that make a successful transition to NFL WRs are the exception, not the rule.

[Iowan]

Eric Crouch logged some time at either WR or DB, I think.

[dime in the gutter]

Antwaan Randle El and Hines Ward come to mind as converted QBs.

i'll give you randle el.....

but not ward. he played a little qb at uga. but he mostly played all over the field. lots more at wr/rb/slot/returner. great player. but much more greatness in a non qb role.

help us out cole.