First, I apologize if this has been previously discussed. I searched the topic, but, as you might imagine, anything with "setlist" in the search yields thousands of posts on actual setlists.

Now to my question. As I understand it, DBT uses no setlist. How accurate is that understanding? Do they script any of the performance? At least the first few songs? Surely the first song, right? And even I, a relative greenhorn, have detected some hand signaling that occurs (feel free to tell me what signals correspond with specific songs), yet I have seen far more songs get played without any hand signals than the other way around. So how is all of this communicated? Telepathy? I mean, I know they're good and all, but telepathic?!? Do they script what the finale will be? That sure seems likely.

Thanks in advance, wise ones.

I don't have any particular expertise or insider knowledge here; just observations and speculation. My guess is that the first song is decided before they walk onstage.

Re: hand signals, I've noticed that they're mostly used in songs where everyone needs to start playing at once, or close to it--which seems in general to be true of more Cooley songs than Patterson songs. "Surrender Under Protest," "Where The Devil Don't Stay," and "Shit Shots Count," for example. Or like "Three Dimes Down," where Brad needs to start playing before Cooley. A notable Patterson song where the rest of the band needs to have a heads up would be "Ever South," and I feel like anecdotally I've seen Patterson turn around and say something to the band before that song.

A lot of other songs will have a bar or two of introductory strumming by the principal that the rest of the guys can pick up on and come in at their cues.

The part I haven't quite figured out is whether whoever "calls" the next song is supposed to keep track of what gear everyone is playing at any given time and give them time to change as needed. I guess mostly relevant to Jay, but certainly Patterson and Cooley switch guitars pretty frequently, too.

There are also certain songs that will appear consecutively, presumably as a consequence of gear. Best example I can think of is that for a while there, "Filthy and Fried" and "Two Daughters and a Beautiful Wife" would be played back-to-back when they broke out those new Fenders.

Great thread topic! Some of you will undoubtedly put me to shame with your responses; what's everyone else got?

I have no "verified" knowledge, but believe the first song is always pre-determined, and sometimes the second. Thereafter, it is the next guy's call, and Cooley commonly uses hand signals for specific songs. I am quite the crew (and Uncle Rickey) know these, and what guitars are needed. KKK Took My Baby Away appear to always follow a Cooley song.

Mundane Mayhem wrote: There are also certain songs that will appear consecutively, presumably as a consequence of gear. Best example I can think of is that for a while there, "Filthy and Fried" and "Two Daughters and a Beautiful Wife" would be played back-to-back when they broke out those new Fenders.

Wanted to make sure I wasn't talking out my ass here. Thanks to the new-and-improved oneofthesedays.org, nine of the past ten appearances of "Two Daughters" have come immediately before or after "Filthy and Fried."

From what I understand, they figure out what song they want to play as they are walking to the stage, and after that, anything goes.
Sometimes, I feel like they are telepathic. I swear I've seen Patterson ask for a guitar change before Cooley indicated what song he was going to play. It's crazy!
We've definitely gotten some of the hand signals down. There are only a few for Patterson that we know, Ever South and the Fourth Night of My Drinking. Cooley has a lot more. English Oceans, Three Dimes Down, Surrender Under Protest, Filthy and Fried, Shit Shots Count, Hearing Jimmy Loud, Self Destructive Zones, Imagine, and not a hand signal, but we can tell you when he's going to do Gravity's Gone. There may be a few that I'm forgetting.
It seems like the last few shows they have done Kinky Hypocrite right before KKK Took My Baby Away. I'm not sure if that's a permanent thing or just a coincidence.

CooleyGirl wrote:From what I understand, they figure out what song they want to play as they are walking to the stage, and after that, anything goes.
Sometimes, I feel like they are telepathic. I swear I've seen Patterson ask for a guitar change before Cooley indicated what song he was going to play. It's crazy!
We've definitely gotten some of the hand signals down. There are only a few for Patterson that we know, Ever South and the Fourth Night of My Drinking. Cooley has a lot more. English Oceans, Three Dimes Down, Surrender Under Protest, Filthy and Fried, Shit Shots Count, Hearing Jimmy Loud, Self Destructive Zones, Imagine, and not a hand signal, but we can tell you when he's going to do Gravity's Gone. There may be a few that I'm forgetting.
It seems like the last few shows they have done Kinky Hypocrite right before KKK Took My Baby Away. I'm not sure if that's a permanent thing or just a coincidence.

Stealing Cooleys hand signals is a favorite hobby of mine. You forgot First Air -> two fingers up the nose.

I’d love a poster with a chart of all of the hand signals.

You ain't getting this kind of shit on Facebook baby!

Y'all have hit all the bulletpoints, just some confirmation and shading.

Yes, it's all unscripted except the first song. That's been confirmed by multiple band members multiple times. Even when they were recording It's Great to be Alive, when they needed to be sure to play a large number of specific songs, they just had a list of the ones they wanted to be sure to play but had no plan or order for when to play them.

Spotting Cooley hand signals is a fun pastime that I enjoy as well. I think I mentioned in a recent post that the signal for "Filthy and Fried" appeared to be a reference to a "sashay of shame."

The parts I don't get are what's already been mentioned: How it works when there is no hand signal and how they accommodate the necessary equipment changes. I think Mayhem is right that to a certain extent the opening chords by the singer serve as the signal but that doesn't seem to cover all the permutations. And I have seen nothing that helps me understand how they incorporate the equipment changes except that they sometimes play an extended opening waiting for jay or patterson (usually; occasionally cooley) to catch up. There was one time when I thought that Jay was going to switch from keys to guitar but it was taking too long and he seemed to just say "fuck it" and made up a keyboard part instead, but I very well could have imagined that whole sequence.

A related mystery is how they supposedly never practice but manage to work new songs into the set and even more impressively (to me, anyway) re-work existing songs into substantially new versions.

Sometimes the way they work illustrates the beautiful kind of familiarity and experience that often gets described as "telepathy;" they just know each other so well they know where they're going w/out talking. But sometimes it does seem like "true" i.e. paranormal, telepathy, which is when I am reminded that the whole DBT thing is an experience to be enjoyed first, savored second and thought about only later.

Rocky wrote:You ain't getting this kind of shit on Facebook baby!

beantownbubba wrote: A related mystery is how they supposedly never practice but manage to work new songs into the set and even more impressively (to me, anyway) re-work existing songs into substantially new versions.

I'm guessing soundchecks. But that's just a guess (though a somewhat educated one).

NO SETLIST? Mind officially blown.

the equipment switching alone (which others have brought up) makes this miraculous.

brett27295 wrote:

beantownbubba wrote: A related mystery is how they supposedly never practice but manage to work new songs into the set and even more impressively (to me, anyway) re-work existing songs into substantially new versions.

I'm guessing soundchecks. But that's just a guess (though a somewhat educated one).

It's during soundchecks. They work on a lot of material that way.

We talked to Jay before the Thalia show and he mentioned that the band had 40 or 50 songs practiced. Of course we asked to play one that wasn’t currently in rotation. Also I noticed there was a sheet taped to Patterson’s monitor during set up at Thalia, not saying it was a set list but the roadie was awfully quick to flip it over while setting up. It was also during his tuning so it could have been his own cheat sheet while tuning Patterson’s guitars.

hendooman wrote:Also I noticed there was a sheet taped to Patterson’s monitor during set up at Thalia, not saying it was a set list but the roadie was awfully quick to flip it over while setting up.

1. There's zero chance it was a setlist.

2. Usually when there's a sheet taped to the monitors it's lyrics to a new song or a new cover that they're doing that night. I've seen lyrics taped to the monitor when Patterson first started doing The Perilous Night and for various covers over the years. I specifically remember lyrics on the monitor when they covered The Weight & Gimme Some Truth. There's probably been many others but those are two I specifically remember.

brett27295 wrote:

hendooman wrote:Also I noticed there was a sheet taped to Patterson’s monitor during set up at Thalia, not saying it was a set list but the roadie was awfully quick to flip it over while setting up.

1. There's zero chance it was a setlist.

2. Usually when there's a sheet taped to the monitors it's lyrics to a new song or a new cover that they're doing that night. I've seen lyrics taped to the monitor when Patterson first started doing The Perilous Night and for various covers over the years. I specifically remember lyrics on the monitor when they covered The Weight & Gimme Some Truth. There's probably been many others but those are two I specifically remember.

Exactly.

brett27295 wrote:I specifically remember lyrics on the monitor when they covered The Weight & Gimme Some Truth. There's probably been many others but those are two I specifically remember.

I remember the night Levon passed away, the band was playing at Cat's Cradle in Carrboro, NC. They had the lyrics to The Weight attached to a few monitors (if I recall, they traded verses). I've seen DBT crew ticked a few times over the years (I miss Damon), but when this one dickweed fan tried to shimmy up and grab one of the sheets - holy shit! Crew dude (99% sure he's no longer a part of the team) went ape shit. Band was in NO mood for those types of shenanigans that night, as the news of his passing was fresh and the respect and love and honor of Levon's name was in the air.

ramonz wrote: I remember the night Levon passed away, the band was playing at Cat's Cradle in Carrboro, NC. They had the lyrics to The Weight attached to a few monitors (if I recall, they traded verses).

Tracy & I were at that show. And no, it wasn't me who tried to snatch the lyrics lol (not sure why anyone would even want something they could printout themselves).

Thanks for all the insight, HeAthens. The one specific I don't think anyone has addressed, however, is the finale. Here are some things I wonder:

Do they know who will close the show? For example, I noticed that last week Cooley closed with Shut Up. Cooley rarely closes; was this discussed beforehand?

Does the band know if/when PH is going to go into Sign of the Times in the middle of Hell No?

Does the band know that sometimes Hell No is merely a teaser and that PH is planning on following up with PWD?

I have a hypothesis for each of these, but your insights and experience surpass mine, so I will keep them to myself.

I have seen them improvise (change their mind) on closing the show more than once: You AND THEY think it's the finale but they forget to stop and can go on for either one or several more songs. My sense on this is that they generally follow Patterson's lead. A lot of fans (including me) thought that's what happened on the Saturday nite of this year's homecoming, which seemed to be heading towards a 2:20ish conclusion but ended up going a full 3 hours.

My guess is that Patterson and Cooley both have a general idea of how long the show is going to be (sometimes guided by curfews) and they aim the last part of the show in the general direction of finishing at that time limit. But it seems that's just a "general idea" and the reality becomes what it becomes. It also seems to vary with tour segments. Even thought the setlist changes, they will come in at around the same time for an entire 2 or 3 week stretch but two weeks later when they go out again, the set times are consistent with each other but are longer or shorter than the previous stretch.

I've wondered about the "medleys" (hell no/sign, buttholeville/trooper) myself but i have no clue how that works other than to say that Patterson sings lead on both and he seems to have his ways of signaling the band that are not easy for the uninitiated to pick up.

beantownbubba wrote: I've wondered about the "medleys" (hell no/sign, buttholeville/trooper) myself but i have no clue how that works other than to say that Patterson sings lead on both and he seems to have his ways of signaling the band that are not easy for the uninitiated to pick up.

From what I can tell the middle section of Buttholeville is the same whether State Trooper is played or not. The signal to the rest of the band is when Patterson starts with "New Jersey Turnpike..." and then of course the rest of the band drops in place. As far as Hell No/Sign the signal for Sign is when Patterson starts the riff for it and then Patton starts the bassline.

brett27295 wrote:

beantownbubba wrote: I've wondered about the "medleys" (hell no/sign, buttholeville/trooper) myself but i have no clue how that works other than to say that Patterson sings lead on both and he seems to have his ways of signaling the band that are not easy for the uninitiated to pick up.

From what I can tell the middle section of Buttholeville is the same whether State Trooper is played or not. The signal to the rest of the band is when Patterson starts with "New Jersey Turnpike..." and then of course the rest of the band drops in place. As far as Hell No/Sign the signal for Sign is when Patterson starts the riff for it and then Patton starts the bassline.

So, IOW, Patterson starts playing and the band is expected to pick up on it right away. Never been in a band, don't know whether this is SOP or not but given the typical problems musicians sometimes have hearing each other on stage this surprises me a little. OTOH, since DBT went to the in ear monitors I don't think they've had that problem anyway.

brett27295 wrote:

beantownbubba wrote: I've wondered about the "medleys" (hell no/sign, buttholeville/trooper) myself but i have no clue how that works other than to say that Patterson sings lead on both and he seems to have his ways of signaling the band that are not easy for the uninitiated to pick up.

From what I can tell the middle section of Buttholeville is the same whether State Trooper is played or not. The signal to the rest of the band is when Patterson starts with "New Jersey Turnpike..." and then of course the rest of the band drops in place. As far as Hell No/Sign the signal for Sign is when Patterson starts the riff for it and then Patton starts the bassline.

Wo I've probably said it before but one of my favorite moments at a DBT show are listening to Buttholeville morph into Statr Trooper. Neither are absolute favorites apart, but I love the few seconds between.

Maybe silly question, but I wonder how, 20 or so songs in to an intense show, nobody has ever accidentally started playing a song they did earlier in the night. Sometimes as a fan I forget what was played earlier in the show.

I believe Los Lobos were not using setlists when I started seeing them in the late 1990s, but they were in the mid-2000s. I've got a Wilco setlist from 1999 that is just a jumble of songs that they chose from during the show, not a neat list that they followed in precise order.

beantownbubba wrote: So, IOW, Patterson starts playing and the band is expected to pick up on it right away. Never been in a band, don't know whether this is SOP or not but given the typical problems musicians sometimes have hearing each other on stage this surprises me a little. OTOH, since DBT went to the in ear monitors I don't think they've had that problem anyway.

The Grateful Dead were doing it in the late 1960's and what they were doing was much more difficult musically. The way they went from one song to another, sometimes weaving one into another is otherworldly. Sometimes they would play an entire set (they always played 2 sets) that was 75 minutes of continuous music weaving one song into another without a single pause, almost every night they would do the same thing with several songs over 30-40 minutes. And like DBT, they never used a setlist. I'm sure others can give many examples of other bands who have been doing similar things for just as long.

I am a VERY amateur guitarist but what DBT does isn't that difficult. For example, Cooley doesn't signal Marry Me. But it's obvious from the opening riffs what's coming. And in a way the "medleys" we've discussed above are similar. The other thing to remember is these guys have been playing with each other for a long time (especially Cooley, Patterson, & Brad) and they're all excellent musicians. In all the shows I've seen I've never seen anyone miss a cue. I've heard them forget lyrics quite often lol but never miss a musical cue.

Yaz Rock wrote:Maybe silly question, but I wonder how, 20 or so songs in to an intense show, nobody has ever accidentally started playing a song they did earlier in the night. Sometimes as a fan I forget what was played earlier in the show.

The miniature version of this would be Cooley starting to repeat a verse he already finished. I believe I have witnessed this.

Yaz Rock wrote:Maybe silly question, but I wonder how, 20 or so songs in to an intense show, nobody has ever accidentally started playing a song they did earlier in the night. Sometimes as a fan I forget what was played earlier in the show.

Their was a show at the 9:30 Club that, when I left the building, I could have SWORN Cooley did Zip City twice. Ended up being me, not them. I don't even think Clams was there to blame.

Flea wrote:
Their was a show at the 9:30 Club that, when I left the building, I could have SWORN Cooley did Zip City twice. Ended up being me, not them. I don't even think Clams was there to blame.

He's always to blame.

buddymo wrote:I’d love a poster with a chart of all of the hand signals.

Spoiler Alert: List of known/suspected signals to follow

From this thread (and others), and personal experience, here is a list of songs mentioned that have signals, and the signal for that song. Consider this a working list, and feel free to copy/paste/add

Cooley:
English Oceans:fingers horizontal over eye
Surrender Under Protest: both arms in an “X”
Filthy and Fried: fingers walking
First Air of Autumn: finger(s) to nose
Devil Don’t Stay: devil horns
Three Dimes Down: three fingers
Shit Shots Count:
Hearing Jimmy Loud:
Self Destructive Zones: gun to the head
Imagine:

Patterson:
Fourth Night of My Drinking: four fingers
Ever South:

SDZ is a “gun to the head” with his finger